Dr. Kimberly Moore (00:02)
I am Dr. Kimberly Moore, a host of the Envision More Workforce Insight podcast. Join us as we explore workforce and leadership through an innovation lens with leaders from across the country and every industry. Whether you're in education trying to crack the code for workforce or industry seeking to address your workforce talent strategy, for maybe you just need to be inspired. We've got you covered. Tune in, save us as a favorite, and let's innovate together.

Thank you for tuning in to yet again another episode of the Workforce Insight podcast brought to you by Envision More Consulting Group where we bring your bold visions to life. Today I am super excited to be in conversation with an amazing trailblazer. We're gonna talk, you know, our conversation is gonna focus on, you know, leading in uncharted territories but really doing that as an impactful leader. And you talk about impactful leader, we got the right person in the spot today. So.

Trailblazer across the country, whether it's education, innovation, or collaboration, that's his name. So Dr. Jemaine, we're all so glad to have you here. If you would, share with the listeners just, you know, a quick spot about the journey that you had leading up to the current role that you have. Well, thank you, Dr. Moore. And first, very honored to be on your platform. You're a trailblazer, and so there's a lot I can say about you. So thank you again for what you continue to do for all of us.

You know quickly, I'm just a country guy from James Allen, South Carolina. Very blessed to go to the public school system, went to college and after college I tell people I wanted to be a banker and the Lord decided not to let me do that. So, you know, after going through undergrad, went to grad school, did an MBA and still wanted to go into banking and honestly landed a job at a group home with DSS custody kids trying to get them out of foster.

care and group homes into.

military career or college, and that's how I got exposed to education. And there was a tutor that I hired that was a former community college math professor in California, Dr. Morris Roper. And he said, man, you can teach. Have you thought about teaching at a two -year college? And it's like, of course not. Wasn't even on my radar. But from that conversation, age 23, got a teaching position in Georgia, teaching at a two -year college, and the rest is history.

you know, from faculty to Dean to faculty at a R2 back to a Dean at a two year college, a vice president for academics, a vice president for economic development. And here I am now at Augusta Tech as president for the last three years. Such an amazing background. I have followed Dr. Wuerl's career since the time that I met him in South Carolina and just knew that great things were already happening. Listeners, I mean, if you're talking about someone to follow, if you haven't followed him yet on his social media platforms, you definitely

better do it because again just a trailblazer in so many places. So today we're going to delve into we have a handful of questions. I know that I'm going to have them back because I know that you're going to want to know more about him. So you know could you talk to us about the and give us an overview of the current landscape of education. We're not even going to move yet into technical colleges but education what are you seeing? It's very destructive that's the word that I'm using. Our industry is you know I was reading the Chronicle today and they were talking about student

debt and some of our top universities are costing 90, $95 ,000 to attend now. And so, you know, I think disruptions with AI, disruptions with governance, there's a lot more pressure from accreditors in terms of quality. We have a lot of changes happening at the federal level, federal financial aid right now is a big one. So there's a lot of stuff happening in the marketplace. And within all of that, people are trying to find what's the

the best educational opportunity for me. What's the most cost effective? And then secondly, what's going to drive me to my desired outcome, which is gainful employment. If we keep those things simple, how we get there is really what higher ed is trying to figure out. Universities are trying to expedite moving from four -year degrees to three -year. We're trying to move from two -year to one -year. We're trying to do micro credentials. And everybody's trying to accelerate growth knowing that we're having to compete against Google and other platforms that are providing free education. And so right now there's

so much disruption and everybody's trying to figure out where they are in the marketplace and how they can better deliver quality.

So it's just a sink to, you know, those I know that, you know, leaders are listening education leaders because again, such a great insight that you provide, but in a nutshell, you were able to do that. So what ways do you feel that the role of technical colleges has evolved, you know, and certainly as it means speaks to meeting the needs of students and industry. How has that evolved? You know, I said higher ed typically ebbs and flows every decade. Right now we're kind of going through a 30 year cycle. When you talk to people in industry,

now, everybody I talk to, especially those who graduate from high schools in the 80s and the 70s, they say, you know, when I went to high school, we had shop. You know, everybody had to learn a trade and, you know, we had all these classes and then we got riddles in the 90s because we all had to go to four -year colleges and now nobody knows how to fix anything, right? And I hear that all the time, dinners, and it's funny because I hear it and then I ask people, I say, well, what does your child want to do when they graduate?

Oh, they're going to UGA. Exactly. I think there is a robust awareness that we need more technical professionals in our world today because as you know, the average age is getting up there. People are retiring in mass numbers and there's nobody to fix your plumbing. There is literally nobody to fix your AC unit. And, you know, I've had friends that have called and said, you know, I've been waiting on an auto repair.

but it's taking three weeks just to get my car in shop because they don't have enough technicians. And that gets exacerbated. I was in DC trying to fly back to Augusta and our airplane needed to get fixed. It had brake issues. And of course we're not going to fly without that. But it was a four hour delay just waiting for technicians from another.

airplane to come and work on a power. Not the work just to do it, but it's just for hours just waiting on them to finish that job to come over here because they didn't have enough technicians. And so I think as you know, we have more needs for service and that goes across every industry, construction, you know, basic things that we kind of take for granted. And we call someone and we ask them to come provide it.

Those skill sets are in high demand, but there's not enough people going into the fields to basically overcome the number of folks leaving it. And so with that, I say technical education in terms of priority in this country has definitely gone up through the roof. Everybody is desiring technical graduates and our graduates are being desired before they even graduate now. I mean, they're in such high demand, one semester they can get gobbled up and get.

great wages. And so I say right now the sky's the limit for anybody that's looking in technical. I mean, community college, that whole umbrella, anybody that's in CTAE. If you're in that area, healthcare, IT, mechanical, engineering, there is no way that you're going to not have a high paying job. So really - And with multiple opportunities, I mean, more clearly. Multiple opportunities, you know, and for a lot of them even start their own companies or do something gig work on the side. So -

We have found that my institution in Georgia, we have basically a 99 % placement rate. People are getting jobs and that's what they want. And more importantly, those graduates, they stay local. So when they graduate, they're not leaving and going to a bigger community. They're making their livelihood right in their region, in their local community, which provides great tax base for your citizens. And so I would say in today's economy more so than ever before.

And even at the federal level, you're seeing the Biden administration trying to bring jobs back to America, manufacturing jobs back. And that's all technical community college education training. That's our sweet spot. So we have a lot of opportunity, but I think we also have a lot of opportunities to change the narrative and the perceptions of what these jobs are and what they're not.

You know, as I was listening to you, I was like this whole notion of learn here, grow here, stay here, that's exactly what's being created with the work that you're doing. And 99%, I mean, golly, listeners, I mean, we'd love to have that number. That's an amazing number.

So, but a lot of what I read and see about the great work that you're doing pertains to partnerships, key partnerships, you know, where you forge with industry. Could you talk and share about, you know, the benefits that you're seeing that when you do this merger between industry and education, because a lot of institutions, educational institutions are trying to figure that out. They don't necessarily have a direct relationship with industry and it's hurt.

Yeah, I think it goes back again. I'm going to go back historically. The 80s is a very interesting case study for higher education. In the 1980s, most individuals would go to a four year institution and then they would work for a corporate institution and that institution would put them through a management training program. You know, you think about the banking sector, you would go through a two or three year management training and they would teach you from teller all the way up to president. And you get to

early 2000s, the Y2K era, a lot of those management programs went away. And they basically said, well, we just want the fresh MBAs to come in and we want them to deliver quality and tell us what to do. And so what happened at every level, manufacturing, healthcare, another example, banking, they got rid of their in -house training and development arms and umbrellas to actually take people with no experience and train them up to be leaders. They got rid of that.

And so it left a pretty significant void to say, well, who is going to be that engine that's going to be able to get that talent raw, train them so that they can come work for us. And so they look at us to be able to say, you all can really be a great partner. And I don't like using the word pre -employment training grounds, but that's what we technically become for them. Because they know that when they come here, they're going to get a great skill set. We're going to teach them not only soft skills, hard skills.

But they're also going to be polished, right? You know, how to communicate, how to do teamwork, how to collaborate. So when they get into the workplace, they can do that more seamlessly. And so partnerships to me is all about providing value to the employer. We are there to solve a problem. And that's essentially what we are. They have an issue that could be talent, that could be whatever. And I'm going to provide you a business solution.

And by providing that, I expect you in return to do what you would do with that big consultant. Give me some funding to do that, right? But funding, I'm not looking for a half a million dollar check, which would be cool, but I am looking for, you know, I need you to provide me equipment. I need you to provide scholarships. I need you to provide an apprenticeship. I need you to provide internships. I need you to serve on my advisory board. I need you to give money to my foundation. I need you to potentially provide me space.

at your facility to do it. I need some of your SMEs to help me write curriculum. And so it becomes multi -layered and then really it becomes a marriage between the college and that institution to say, if we do this right, you're gonna benefit for the long haul and we're gonna benefit because it provides a very seamless pathway for any graduate who wants to come here and wants to work in the community. And I think more companies are understanding.

that that is a long -term strategy that's sustainable. They know that we're not going anywhere, that they know that the town that comes from us stays in the region. And so it only takes one. And once you have that one organization that can tout and provide that testimony, then everybody else is like, well, I want to do that too. And then it just builds upon itself. And we've been very fortunate. We've been here 60 years and we have a number.

of partnerships that we can tout. But I would tell you, for those who are really wanting to do this at the highest level, you definitely need to go get the biggest, most, I would say the biggest and most influential employer in your market. Whoever that is, you got to get them at the top. Because in my experience, if you get them to play with you, then everybody else tends to follow suit. When I was in South Carolina, that was BMW.

BMW is a 15 ,000 employee, you know, massive, massive company. But once you got BMW, then you got the tier one, tier two, tier three suppliers. Everybody follows suit because of like, with BMW's partnering, we got a partner. And in Augusta, for us, it was Augusta National, you know, which is the preeminent golf industry in the world. You know, you got Tiger Woods is here this week. And so, you know, people are like, well, my gosh, if...

If Augusta Nationals working with Augusta Tech, they gotta be legitimate. And so they legitimize who we work. And then honestly, Dr. Moore, everybody started calling in. Car dealerships, hospitals. I heard you all work, what are you all doing with Augusta Nationals? We would like to figure that out. And I'm an economist, so in economics, it's called the crowding in effect. And it's essentially you get to get that big, big influential base.

once you get them rallied in, it will crowd in other donors and you know, stakeholders. And so we were able to get in a very effective manner and it's really paid off dividends for us. You know, I, every time I'm looking at a post and I'm seeing, you know, we talked about, you know, you talked about the half million or the million dollar checks. I've seen you've had quite a bit of those too, where employers and industry have bought in that it's not a short -term solution. It's a long -term solution and that you all are doing it collectively. So.

I mean, amazing work there, but something that you talked about with advisory council. So making sure that your curriculum is relevant, remains relevant and is aligned with, you know, industry demand. How do you do that? It is an ongoing process, right? And I know in higher ed, I said this the other day, we talk about accreditation being a, you know, continuous improvement process. And we say that, but we don't like to do it when we have to do it at times.

But quite honestly, it's really having a relationship that we're continuously talking to employers. You know, from a formal standpoint, we do that twice a year in a board meeting. But I have breakfast, I have lunch and dinner with these people every day. This is not just a one -off. It's really about building relationships with executives and their middle level managers. And when you do that, you're constantly engaging, you're learning something. I learn something every single time I sit down with them about processes and what they're doing and then...

I bring that back and I say, gosh, you know, we need to really think about how are we teaching that? Because what I heard yesterday is X. And we don't change it immediately because faculty have to go through the process of all the rec curriculum committee and all of that. But what we do, we do make notations about how we can begin to tweak our curriculum and anticipation at either something major or minor needs to happen. And we try to roll that in in the next semester. And that, again, that keeps us very, very fresh. And of course,

allowing those industry partners to come in, be guest speakers, to talk directly to students, and for field trips. Because some of the technology they have is very proprietary, and a lot of them I can't afford, but we can go take them to the plant and let them see it and operate it, then that's a great learning experience as well. So it's multifaceted.

So the focus on the curriculum and then there's the piece about, you know, what are the most critical skills and competencies that you believe students need for, you know, tech driven world. We got that going on, but and how does your institution cultivate that in the students? Yeah, again, it's multifaceted. You know, our core curriculum, we got some learning outcomes for every student has to have. In Georgia, we have something called the work ethics grade. We actually give a grade based upon work ethics and it covers eight different soft skills.

And you can pass the class and fail work ethics. And that's a big deal for us. I mean, we grade attendance, we grade how you come into class, are you dressed appropriately? That is just as important as just the content itself, because if you're not doing those things that will make you successful at the employer level, then we didn't do our job preparing you holistically. So we take not only the academic piece, but then that piece there collectively to say, this is what a true graduate should look like.

So that's in every class, every program of study, we have that across the board. That's the good housekeeping seal of approval right there. You know, oftentimes, you know, you hear institutions across the nation that talk about, you know, we care just as much about them being work ready and prepared, but none that I've heard as a system that's taken it to this point to actually grade it. I know listeners, you will be contacting him. Please do make sure that, you know, this is one that you mark as a favorite because really good information here.

So, you know, when I think about, you know, being a leader in the education sector, what strategies do you employ? Because again, you're ahead of the curve in so many different ways. How do you employ or foster innovation and adaptability among your faculty and staff? You've got to get people fired up and you've got to give them something exciting, you know, to work towards. You know, we have every year we have a theme at the college. Our theme this year is no limits.

And I kicked off Convocation with the No Limit Soldier song, the whole thing. I mean, the whole thing. I know. Like, I'm working seriously about it. I'm like, we have no limits. If we can do it, just move forward with it. Take the caps off. And that's what we're trying to get our entire employee body to really embrace. In Higher Red, we get so focused on what we don't have, what budget dollars we don't have, what resources we don't have. And I said, it's not really about the money.

The money honestly is secondary. It's about whether you have something that's worthwhile somebody's time and investment in energy. When you talk to donors, donors are not interested in replicating something that was done 10 years ago. They have zero interest. But if you go, and I'll give you an example. When I went to Augusta National, I said, guys, I want to build the nation's first corridor of golf education. They're like, keep talking. Because that was something like, OK, that's something that's worth going after. What does that look like?

I'm like, well, we have First T, which is K -12, us, and we have a university across the street. How would it look like if we partnered and re -did the entire 188 acres and made that an education hub with new tournaments? And they were like, keep going. And now we just signed lease with the city, 50 year lease, and we're going to renovate this whole golf course, and it's going to be extravagant by the time we're done. But that was because I didn't come and say, you know, I just want to have a golf management program, you know, and I want to do agronomy.

And those things are fine, but we have to think what is going to be transformational? What is a transformational project that will have implications for everybody's future, not only to college, not only your students, but really the community? How was that going to be groundbreaking to the community that in 50 years people want to say, man, you know, Augusta Tech did that agreement in 2024. Man, I'm so glad they did that because this is out there, right?

And that's the way we have to think about our work. And not everything is going to be at that level. But I encourage my faculty, when you're looking at curriculum, let's try to do something that hasn't been done. Like if we're going to teach economics, Keynesian has not really changed. But the way we go about it, we can do something unique, right? And I give a great example. I got a math faculty member right now, one of his side.

you know, hobbies, he's an athletic trainer. So this summer, he's piloting an algebra class, but he's also mixing in his athletics training. So for part of the class, they're gonna be talking about algebra, and then the other half, they're gonna be talking about how algebra fits into athletic training off campus. And so, but that was because I just pressed him like, could we just do something different? And he was like, duck, we're like, get it. And so we're gonna do it. And you gotta let them do it. Like,

he might fail, cool, but he did something different. And I'm sure people will love it, right? And so that is what I constantly try to press through our team. And there are some folks that get uncomfortable, but what happens when you get one or two people within the department doing something new and they get that pat on the back, then it becomes contagious. And so that's what we strive to do every day. So.

I know the listeners, those that don't know you yet, but I can't, it's probably where have you been under a rock if you don't. But for those that don't, share with the listeners, how long have you been in this role? Because that's the shock factor that's gonna come in there because a lot of it is like culture and how do you do that? And a lot of people say, well, it's gonna take five to 10 years. How long have you been in that role? Three years and four months. So it hasn't been long. Yeah. Yeah.

Hasn't been long and I would share with the listeners even in that first year, I saw that same spark. I mean, sparks follow him, so that's amazing. So when we think about innovation and people willing to take on something different.

We have the traditional academic approach, you know, that's one piece of it. But then you have emerging technology when everybody's talking AI, chat, GPT, you know, all these amazing things. What, how have you balanced that? What does that look like for your institution? It's, it's an ongoing opportunity. What we've really done in the last six, seven months, we really focused on professional development. So we, we've brought in experts to campus to come talk for our faculty about how, how we can actually utilize it.

To me, it is not a bad thing. I think it's a big opportunity that we have to embrace, number one. And then secondly, how do we utilize it for the good? And there's so much implications. All of our professional developments have been packed. Our faculty have been really, really engaged. They love it. There's still some trepidation about, you know, student code of conduct and all of that stuff. But at the end of the day, you know, this is one of those things that is going to forever change how

our students learn how we engage and more importantly, it's actually gonna make faculty life easier as well. And I think they're starting to see that there are a lot of things that CHAT GPT can do. I'll give you this one quick story, I know we got time. But I think this is important. Angel, who is a good friend of mine, he's the president of Georgia Tech. And he was doing an interview and I was talking to him about this and he was talking about they had at Georgia Tech, which is 45 ,000 students, huge, huge R1, right?

and they had a university strategic planning meeting. So all the deans, provosts, all these very bright, intelligent people in the room working on the next five -year strategic plan for Georgia Tech. And they're on the board writing what they should do and ideas. And Angel was sitting like this the whole time. And so he went to chat GPT on his laptop, and he typed in, what is a strategic plan for Georgia Tech for the next five years? Enter.

In a second. In 30 seconds, it spit out a whole strategic plan for Georgia Tech. He flipped it over and told the meeting, the meeting is adjourned. We were done and walked out. But he said, the reason why I walked out, he said, because it was so legitimate and it was detailed. And he was like, we don't need to spend five hours doing this, right? So I give that, I give the exact, and of course, you know, he came back in the room, but what he was telling them was like, we spent all our time doing something that.

We, in his words, we have to now find value in things that AI cannot provide value for. Yes. And it cannot be regurgitation of anything, like he said, anything that has happened in the past three, 400 years, it's already in the system. What we have to do, we have to provide new knowledge and new value that's not in the system that's actually going to move us in a different direction. And I thought his example was like, man, I was, I mean, of course I laugh, but.

That's the reality. So it's going to be there. But even like a professor, we can't teach the same way. We can't give the same type of assignments. We're going to be challenged on the papers we assign, how we assign it, what we're asking students to do. Because if it's just multiple choice Scantron, we're already behind the game. So I look at it as really a new opportunity for us just to really look at how education is, how it should be evolving. This has really expedited.

I love that story and I could just imagine all the chuckles, but they'll once they finish that laugh, they'll realize that's so true. That's absolutely in a second. So it's in it's providing that level of efficiency and it's what else do we want to do next? It already can do this. So it's amazing because again, with our conversation, I was so excited and anticipating it. And now we're down to our last question.

But again, you know that the virtual door is always open for you and I cannot wait to continue the conversation. Again, just a great leader. And because I realize that the listeners are going to be feeling that same thing, I'm going to ask you that key question. What are the key ingredients? Secret sauce from your perspective of being an impactful leader in the field of education right now. It starts with people and it ends with people.

And for me, I tell my cabinet all the time, we have to love people. I know my good friend Russell at Austin Community College, he talks about love all the time. And it's very true. It's about relationships, because at the end of the day, to get the best out of anybody, you got to spend time with people, you got to be authentic, and you got to really, really love them. And I mean that from a professional.

and a personal perspective. There's so many, and the reason why I mention that is because there's so many job opportunities in the country. People don't have to work for you. When I talk to our new hires, I tell them, thank you all the time, I'm like, because just in our area, we got four other colleges, they don't have to work for me. They can go anywhere. These folks are well -educated. They can go to Tennessee, they can go to Florida. So I don't take it for granted that somebody decides to...

you know, come work for Augusta Tech, make their living here, spend whatever period of time that they're gonna be here for part of their career. And I think, you know, sometimes we lose that. We know we just, well, they're here and they need to do this, this, this. Like, yeah, they're here, but they don't have to be here. And especially those who are giving it, they're all, you know, they're really pouring out in our students. They go above and beyond. We gotta take care of all people. And that starts from our lowest pay to our student workers all the way up.

And I think if we have that approach and then also ensure that people stay focused on the mission, you're going to be successful. And those two things are important. You got to be visible. You got to spend time with people. You got to really, really love them. And then you got to just ensure that we focus on our mission and our strategic plan and those two things in conjunction, you're going to win. And that's where I've kind of integrated my leadership skills. And of course I'm a big John Maxwell.

a guy in 21 Airfeelable Laws of Leadership. If you have not read that book, you gotta go read it because Dr. Moore, the one thing I always tell people is the law of the lid, number one, the law of the lid basically says that your department, your division, your organization cannot go any higher than you. I love it. Period. Mic drop, everything else. Cannot go any further than you. Yeah, if you're a two, guess what? The organization's not going any higher.

So wherever you are, you have to be growing. And if you're growing, then your organization can grow with you. But unfortunately, a lot of leaders, they get in a position and we go like this. And then we wonder why the organization's not growing. It's because we're stagnant. And you might have tens under you. And it is probably one of the worst feelings in the world for a high performing person to be under somebody that they know their level of leadership is not. It is antagonizing.

And so I always press to our team, you got to grow leadership every day. Maxwell says that you have to grow every day and your lid has to be growing. If your lid is moving up, your organization is going to go up. People are going to love you. They're going to want to be a part of that. People want to be on championship teams. And if you do those things, love on people, focus on mission and then grow as a leader yourself, then the sky's the limit.

Sky's the limit and I'm even gonna tag John Maxwell on there because I'm gonna tell him he couldn't ask for a better endorsement and someone that's living it out. So, you know, again, such a great opportunity to share with the audience. I wanna thank our listeners for one, joining another episode of Workforce Insight, again, brought to you by Envision More Consulting Group, where we bring your bold visions to life. Let's look forward to another conversation with Dr. Wurl soon. Please be sure to subscribe and mark us as a favorite. Thank you.

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